A bill to ban the use of the mineral in public water passed the Florida House 88-27. It now awaits Gov. Ron DeSantis’ signature.
Lawmakers in Florida gave final passage to a bill to ban fluoride in public water systems Tuesday, with the state House voting 88-27.
SB 700, also known as the Florida Farm Bill, doesn’t mention the word “fluoride,” but it would effectively ban the chemical compound by preventing “the use of certain additives in a water system.” The bill awaits Gov. Ron DeSantis’ signature.
If DeSantis, a Republican, signs the bill, Florida will become the second state to ban fluoride from water supplies.
Yanks love to stereotype Brits as having bad teeth when statically your teeth have more cavities and removals (our dentistry focuses on health over cosmetics). Hopefully shit like this can fully kill that off that stereotype.
The UK largely doesn’t fluoridate, so this is one of the (few) areas where the US actually does better than the UK. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_fluoridation_by_country
The UK does generally have better tooth health in the grand scheme of things, but it’s actually pretty close, and the US is still really high on the list.
https://www.yongeeglintondental.com/blog/healthy-primary-teeth/
Without checking, I suspect the US’s slightly higher cavity rate is more down to sugar consumption than received dental care.
and also dental care isnt usually covered by most insurance so people try to ignore the problem til its too late.
“yes we offer health insurance but fuck your teeth and eyes you poor fuck”
Did you read the rest of the Wikipedia article? How is better to add fluoride in the amounts the US does? It says in the Wikipedia article:
Recent studies suggest that water fluoridation, particularly in industrialized countries, may be unnecessary because topical fluorides (such as in toothpaste) are widely used and cavity rates have become low. For this reason, some scientists consider fluoridation to be unethical due to the lack of informed consent. However, a recent study funded by NHS found no significant difference between individuals who receive fluoridated water and those who don’t in terms of missing teeth and reducing social inequities.
That’s only because we have states like Alabama skewing our statistics
No it’s because your bread has so much sugar the rest of the world would call it cake.
It’s also a diet thing and a result of people damaging their teeth with whitening and cheap veneers.
The majority of people I know with dental issues couldn’t afford to have minor things fixed so they turned into major things.
Dental insurance is a joke and lots of people don’t even get that joke.
The other state is Utah.
Well, don’t need fluoride if you don’t have teeth
Fluorida
There is evidence that there is a correlation between fluoride in water and lower IQ in children. It’s difficult to show causation, but it’s something that should be investigated. Pausing fluoridation while this happens would seem sensible.
I think this is the first time I’ve ever defended something these arseholes have done. Feels weird.
flouride also stregnthens the teeth, its a fact. the anti-flouride people still complaining how they are getting cavaties despite using all thse flouride free toothpastes. alot of them ventured into using n-HA as a replacement, but the effects are very unpredictable and hasnt be reliabe, i think you need confirmed 10% n-HA for the toothpaste to repair the teeth.
but the effects are very unpredictable and hasnt be reliabe
I have read many opinions from dentists, educated by the latest research, who claim otherwise.
Hydroxyapatite toothpaste has been on the market for a long time in Japan, and their statistics do not suggest that there is rampant decay in their population.
Topically applied fluoride only remineralizes the surface enamel, however, it is more resistant to acid-attack. The typical American diet and oral care habits make this a more desirable choice for those who are unwilling to commit to a consistent oral hygeine routine (and changing their diet + snacking/drinking habits).
Nano-Hydroxyapatite is similar to actual tooth structure and occludes dentinal tubules. This means it has superior remineralization capabilities, as it penetrates deeper into the tooth structure. For me, this has greatly reduced the sensitivity I have experienced (which is why I switched).
While the research has not quite caught up, it seems ideal that one ceases using fluoride toothpaste for a period of a few weeks to a few months and uses only nano-hydroxyapatite toothpaste to remineralize the parts that fluoride doesn’t, and if their oral care routine isn’t sufficient or they are showing signs of decay (due to e.g. acid attack or improper flossing/etc.), they then should use fluoride toothpaste exclusively after that point in time (until sensitivity occurs), or a mixture of the two toothpastes (such as using a product like CariFree, which contains both), as this will make the surface of their teeth more resistant to acid.
Now, as for fluoride added to the water supply, it’s mostly useless to your teeth and is toxic. Fluoride’s benefits are topical, and most people do not give it a sufficient time to work (by leaving it on the teeth for 30 minutes). The fluoridated water doesn’t stay on your teeth long enough to outweigh the benefits of proper toothpaste usage/application.
Even if studies in third world countries or other countries (like Canada) suggest there is a benefit to fluoridating the water supply, an increase in dental education (especially in parents with children) would be sufficient to outweigh the supposed negatives of ceasing a largely ineffective (and likely harmful to human health) practice. Or through the regulation of foods and drinks that are known to directly contribute to the development of caries (especially in products targeting children).
Tooth decay doesn’t magically happen, there are specific causes for it. Like repeatedly applying acids to the teeth (e.g. soda) without rinsing it off with water or leaving plaque on the teeth (which produce acid) - which inevitably hardens to tartar and leads to a cascade of effects on oral and gum health, including more acid production.
If dental care and education was more accessible, more people would know about fluoride/nano-hydroxyapatite varnishes or would have trays made that they use overnight to remineralize their teeth. The benefits of water fluoridation are nil compared to the effectiveness of prescription (or regular) fluoride toothpastes and a proper oral care routine/diet interventions. Regular interventions from hygienists and licensed dentists - like dental cleanings/check-ups every 6 months are also imperative for oral health.
i think you need confirmed 10% n-HA for the toothpaste to repair the teeth.
According to case studies, 1-3% (of nanoXIM) is optimal for safety, sensitivity, remineralization, and whitening.
There are actually studies that support this person’s point. There’s are correlations between the quantity of fluoride in water and non-neurotypical characteristics in children. There are also links between fluoride and small deceases in IQ.
Take a look at some studies and be open to complication: fluoride is good for teeth and prevents cavities in low doses, but it also has some potentially serious side-effects. We should absolutely be doing more research on this.
Did you even read the paper you linked?
The mean IQ level was more in the region with medium fluoride concentration in drinking water (56.68) compared to areas with low fluoride concentration (41.03) and high fluoride concentration (31.59).
So according to that study, having “medium levels” (1.2-2ppm) of fluoride is much better. I checked three random water reports in Florida which had 0.5, 0.7 and 0.9 ppm.
They also fucked up this graph
Notice the x axis
Lol I’m sure Florida is so on top of that research
Take iodine out of salt while you’re at it.
Let’s bring the gioter look back!
Don’t worry, y’all, they’re probably gonna make lead pipes great again, too!
edit - that way, you can all look and act like wild bill from the green mile! isn’t that GREAT?
How about dazzle points? Sparkleshine?
T-dazzle!
Bring back asbestos, Florida! And leaded gasoline!
And gas station bath salts!
Dumb question: if this becomes countrywide, can we do it ourselves? Like, add fluoride and what have you to our tap water?
Some public water naturally has flouride in it without adding it. IIRC it was high flouride well water in Colorado that revealed its benefits You can also use flouride rinses or just not rinse after brushing. This doesn’t help kids though, which as I understand it are the primary beneficiaries of flouride in waterr.
As far as I know there’s not a way to just add it to the house supply, like they do with water softeners in some places, but you can get drops you can add to an individual glass of water. There are also tablets you can take. What I do at this point is use a fluoride mouthwash in the evening (the purple listerine; you have to avoid eating or drinking for 30 minutes after using it, so the evening is convenient that way) and also get the fluoride treatment at my dental hygienist appointments, along with using a fluoride toothpaste (which you’re most likely already using).
It’s a hassle, though, especially during the transition. When I moved out here, my teeth got worse in a hurry until I adapted to this new routine.
Who needs teeth even you have flood insurance.
Leave Florida if you can. Especially if you have or are expecting children. Moving isn’t always possible, but if you live in Florida know that your state is actively trying to hurt you.
I feel so bad for anyone who lives there through no choice of their own
You know who doesn’t need Fluoride in their drinking water? People with dentures.
Checkmate whipper snappers.
You don’t need municipal water to be fluoridated if you just want your kids to have fluoridation. When I was a kid, we didn’t have fluoridation available in our municipal water, and so my folks got themselves a water cooler and ordered delivery of five gallon bottles of fluoridated water for it. Mom made a point of making milk with it from powdered milk so that everyone got their fluoridation. You can still get those bottles.
I mean, I’m sure that the great bulk of people aren’t going to do that, and that it’s going to lead to dental problems down the line, but it’s not like an individual can’t get ahold of the water if they want it. Costs more per unit of water volume to have it delivered than to pipe it in, but then, you’re not drinking all that much volume of water, either; most residential water use goes to things other than drinking.
EDIT: Plus, if you have a water cooler, you also can have chilled water. We didn’t have a powered cooler; ours was just an unpowered, gravity-fed dispenser, but all of the modern-day ones I’ve run into in offices have a chiller.
https://www.amazon.com/s?k=water+dispenser+cooler
If I lived in (tropical) Florida, I’d probably want to have chilled water handy…
Done even need that.
I went to a rural school and every week on Tuesdays we took 10 minute shifts to go rinse our mouths with a fluoride mouth wash. 1 gallon jug with a pump and Dixie cups. Lasted most of a school year.
You don’t leave Florida because you want flouride in your water. You leave Florida because it’s the type of state that would ban flouride in the water.
Yet another expense lumped onto American citizens that is entirely avoidable
Not to mention infeasible for people already struggling to afford food and other basic necessities. Which means they will struggle to afford the dental care from not being able to afford privatized fluoride.
Its all a trap to push people in poverty into deeper states of vulnerability, eventually prison, and therefore free labor for the state
Isn’t it great that our teeth aren’t part of our health insurance?
Being able to circumvent their measures doesn’t mean they aren’t actively trying to increase harms for residents.
You’re kinda missing the point. It doesn’t stop at flouride. It doesn’t stop at deregulating manufacturing waste. Nothing in politics is “just one thing” it’s either an up or down trend that continues until people force change.
9/10 Evil dentists approve
All dentist are evil though.
All those MAGAs thinking it will save government money and that the citizens will see that savings. Even if the savings was fully passed to the general public, it’s going to be very tiny.
Ban chlorine and chloramine in the water too! The microorganisms will strengthen your immune system. Just like Haiti. :)
Unironcally yes, it shouldn’t take much convincing that a substance as dangerous as chlorine mostly known for being used as a chemical weapon shouldn’t be in drinking water when UV sterilization exists and is proven.
when UV sterilization exists and is proven.
And costs orders of magnitude more.
Using chlorine to treat drinking water is fine dude, just stop.
Does your tap have a UV light in it, or do you think there’s no possibility of bacterial growth between the water processing plant and your house?
Yes it does
So then why do you care?
And how much did it cost?
Stop being so negative. They’ve clearly given this a lot of thought. At least two to three seconds.
a substance as dangerous as chlorine
Water is often said to be the “element of life”, and we need oxygen to live. But if you add one oxygen atom to a water molecule you end up with H2O2, or hydrogen peroxide, which is deadly.
This is the thing that the majority of people don’t understand about chemistry. Just because one chemical (water is a chemical, btw) has the same word in its name as another chemical that’s known to be highly toxic doesn’t mean they’re both toxic.
Chemistry is insanely complex and we are entirely unable to evaluate the toxicity of a chemical just by its name (without prior knowledge).
Except that chlorine is highly toxic? Unless there is some other chlorine that i am unaware of that shares the name with regular chlorine that is also used as a disinfectant without being highly toxic.
You literally just proved my point. Congrats.
Maybe do like 5 min of research to learn how the treatment works and why it’s completely safe?
Ban sodium chloride too!
Is your argument that chlorine is as safe to consume as salt?
Are you claiming that chlorinated water is as dangerous as chlorine gas?
No, but i am saying i would rather not drink disinfectants.
Then enjoy waterborne diseases - apparently that’s preferable to chlorine concentrations of, at most, 4 parts per million.
Man, just wait until you hear about this awful chemical called dihydrogen monoxide. It’s used as an industrial solvent, cleaning agent, and all other kinds of destructive things, and they put it in your food! This shit can kill you if you breathe in too much, yet they put it in our food?!?!1?1
Is your argument that chlorine is as safe to consume as water?
No, just that your dAnGeRoUs ChEmIcAl assertion is FUD and spreading ignorance. But considering you ‘unironically yes’-ed a comment referencing Haiti and how the microorganisms will strengthen your immune system, I’m entirely unsurprised.
As another person put it ‘the dose is the poison’. Sure, chlorine is poisonous in large doses. But so is water.
comment referencing Haiti and how the microorganisms will strengthen your immune system, I’m entirely unsurprised.
Clearly this wasn’t the the part I was referring to… Why would you think I would suggest not disinfecting water when a sentence later I suggest using UV disinfection.
Yes you don’t die immediately if you drink chlorinated water like if you breathe chlorine gas. However if I had to choose between drinking chlorine treated water vs drinking UV treated water all my life this choice is easy to make.
If I had to choose between panicking over chlorinated water or spending billions of dollars to disinfect water in a less effective way…
I’d probably just let the water sit out for a while or run it through a cheap carbon filter because I’m not an idiot.
mustard gas is not the same as chlorinated water, or even bleach and ammonia. its a different compound.
I was not talking about Mustard gas but chlorine gas, according to wikipedia first deployed on masse during tbe Second battle of Ypres by the germans.
Chlorine gas was actually used in world war 1. It’s still a massive stretch to invoke that in relation to water treatment.
It’s like invoking water boarding to say we shouldn’t have a water supply.
You think chlorine is mostly known for being used as a chemical weapon? Not, you know… Swimming pools?
You’re a good example of why people make bad choices about science related public policy.
First, the poison is in the dose. There’s a big difference between inhaling concentrated chlorine gas and drinking trace quantities.
Second, how do you propose we uv sterilize the water? We’d need to do so at the plant, but also at any holding cisterns. Or were you thinking of retrofit for houses? And not all microorganisms are strongly impacted by UV. It’s tricky to find legitimate research, since the people who sell them say they work great, but what’s out there paints a different picture of efficacy.Are you… are you drinking the pool water?
Does your local government chemically treat cisterns?
I don’t know what to say other than, maybe, poison is poison. You can dilute the dose to levels that won’t have acute affects but that doesn’t mean chemical build up or other toxicity related illnesses cannot occur.
Nope, they don’t treat the cisterns because the water has been treated at the conditioning plant. Part of the reason for treatment is because holding reservoirs pose a significant risk for contamination.
In my municipality there aren’t enough cisterns that there’s a significant risk of undetected damage, but larger cities, particularly with tall buildings, will have enough that contamination is able to go longer without detection. It’s why major cities treat their water more aggressively.Salt is poison. It’s also a disinfectant antimicrobial. You also die unless you get a quantity of it.
Ethanol is a disinfectant poison, and so is lye/sodium hydroxide. Having a pretzel and a beer every now and then is also harmless, despite being cooked in disinfectant, topped with disinfectant, and washed down with yet another disinfectant.You die unless you get enough water, and you die if you get too much.
Foxglove can kill you, or correct dangerous heart conditions.
Apples contain trace amounts of cyanide. Pears have formaldehyde in them because it’s part of natural biological processes. (Your body actually has special processes for handling the formaldehyde it produces. You still shouldn’t drink it, but pears are fine)The dose makes the poison. That’s not just a phrase meaning that sometimes you can avoid toxicity, it’s quite literal. A poison is a chemical that disrupts normal bodily processes. Every chemical can do that with the correct (incorrect?) concentration.
If you choose to point to a chemical and say it shouldn’t be consumed because there’s a dose that can be harmful, it’s worth remembering that every substance has that limit.that doesn’t mean chemical build up or other toxicity related illnesses cannot occur
And that’s the type of question you need to ask, not “is it poisonous at some dosage”. You might be shocked to learn that that’s actually part of what we look at when deciding if a chemical is safe to use in some context.
Also, I don’t drink the pool water because it’s a taboo in my culture to drink water that has had people in it. Doesn’t mean it’s unsafe to drink, since getting some in your mouth is inevitable when swimming. It’s treated much more aggressively because “people are in it” and communal things like that are risks for disease spread.
Kinda like why I don’t sterilize my scissors at home, but my barber does. The public health aspect is why they need a license and training that covers sanitation and the basics of skin diseases.
Also, the pool inevitably has pee in it. at a significantly higher concentration than the chlorine in drinking water, as an aside.
I already edited it to infamously anyways thats what comes to my mind at first when i think of chlorine.
And how would i propose we do this? By living in a country that already does it. Here is the page of my local water provider:
https://www.evides.nl/uw-drinkwater/productieproces/de-zuiveringsprocessen
Daarna maken we het water bacteriologisch betrouwbaar: de hoofddesinfectie. Dit gebeurt door middel van ultraviolet licht (UV).
Then we make the water bacteriologically reliable: the main disinfection. This is done by means of ultraviolet light (UV).
Being used to this type of water when i go on vacation it really smells like im drinking swimming pool water.
The Netherlands also chlorinates water, just not to the degree some other countries do. The chlorine is what keeps the water safe during transport and storage after it has been sterilized.
Didn’t know anyone was doing it at scale. Neat.
In any case, retrofitting most municipal systems just to protect against a non-existent danger just isn’t feasible.
Looking a bit more into the process in the Netherlands, it looks like it’s not just UV light. It looks like it’s also aggressive filtration, and treatment with lye and hydrogen peroxide. Also benign, but not quite in line with the “nothing that seems toxic in the water” story.
