Is El Salvador going to be the next Australia?
No. It’s not a prison colony, it’s just a prison.
Isn’t Trump a convicted criminal? There would be a lot of happier people if they just sent him to El Salvador.
It’s not for people who were convicted. No due process allowed.
I thought Trump was expanding it to everyone. Probably including people in other countries he doesn’t like.
Americans, either fix your shit, or start thinking about how to get out, before the big beautiful wall keeps you in.
They’re working on it. Other side has a tremendous surveillance apparatus, as well as corporate media. They are treading carefully.
Yep. It’s the Stasi’s wet dream.
Don’t get out. Rise up. Take it back!
The existential threat is real, but also entirely unnecessary and avoidable.
nah, man. i say get out. if you’re not fully on board with what they’re doing, be proactive and at least decide where and how you’re going to live your life in exile.
Let the world fight your battles.
If every US citizen against Trump left the US and only the MAGAts were there, they’ll starve in weeks. Imagine all the blue states, the ones that “pay the bill”, losing more than half their population. And the rest of the world not wanting to do business with what remained in the US.
We fucked it up so bad we deserve the right to run away.
I’d love to leave but I’m poor
This will also trigger a break down in law … it’s basically capital punishment … break the law and you’re out.
So to many people who see the writing on the wall … if you’re going to be punished severely, why not do as much as possible while you can before you’re ejected … or ride the lawbreaking for as long as you can until you get caught because you’re screwed anyway
America is going down in flames
Hey we should all discuss it at length yet not actually do anything about it. Go team 'murica.
Ok, tell everyone your plan, what do you propose we do about it, specifically?
You remember a few years back when those Nazis took over your government for a day? Give that a go.
Sure, that’d work, great plan, why didn’t anyone else think of that!
Seemed to work out great for them. Just have a look around.
Oh I’m sure the response from our current regime would be as mild as it was for the fascists, sure they wouldn’t think of simply mowing people down en masse as soon as they even threatened to be storming the Capitol. Gimme a break, unreal that you think that this would be in any way effective whatsoever, it’s in fact exactly what the fascists are hoping for, they’d love nothing more than any reason for mass killing the opposition.
If you think that’s not about to happen anyway you’re a fool. And if you think this regime won’t be defeated by action not lawyers or politics and that many won’t be killed in the process you might as well start digging your grave now or go kiss the boot and get your uniform.
They’re going to start mowing people down who are storming the Capitol anyway? Hmm, what if people aren’t doing that? So, just to be clear, your plan is for people to just show up and start storming the Capitol? Cool cool, that’s what I was expecting, nothing.
Under no circumstances allow your US Citizen self to be illegally detained by ICE I guess.
Bro’s talking about himself
Discussing begets knowledge, and knowledge is half the battle.
Does anyone else feel so un-motivated at work ever since Trump became president? I can’t sleep sometimes with the anxiety. I don’t even want to try to be anything in this American society anymore if it means a criminal can be President. What’s the point? Bad always wins. Good always suffers.
My depression has depression at this point.
2020 i woke up every morning expecting to see a mushroom cloud over the nearest city. Every. Single. Morning.
MAGA!
Fuck man, how did we get here?
I know how we go here but this timeline seems so quick.
Conservative wanted revenge or whatever it is.
England 2.0
This is getting out of hand
We knew they wanted to go in a fascist direction, but I doubt many of us imagined they’d have the concentration camps up and running within three months. Bukele says he won’t return anyone, even if innocent, from this prison in El Salvador, and the director of the prison says that no one who goes in will ever return to their community. So how do you keep shipping prisoners into a camp without any of them coming out, and without the camp filling up? Maybe we’re further along with the Nazi program than most people realize.
We’re on pace with Nazi Germany. If you use that as a template you’ll expect:
- Concentration camps in about 60 days (milestone reached)
- October we’re due to leave the UN/NATO
- Draft coming in 2027 if Trump remains in power
- In 2030 we’ll annex Greenland
- By September 2031 we will start WW3
Now a lot can change between now and then and Trump isn’t a young guy, but that’s the blueprint to watch.
We’re much further ahead than them. Unlike Nazi Germany we’re already the world’s undisputed hegemon and all of the world’s most advanced economies are aligned w us.
Even though some are starting to learn to regret it; they’re still more skeptical of China or Russia than they are of us and our military presence within their borders and their dependence on our financial system ensures that they won’t stray unless the bombs literally start flying and, by then, it’ll be too late.
Yeah obviously there are differences between 1933 Germany and 2025 USA, but it still takes time to do everything. Our hegemony is deteriorating, and the way I see it that’s more important for global reaction speed than internal change speed.
No one currently gives enough of a shit about owning Greenland to want to invade it. The draft is key and I don’t think you’ll see that until after the mid-terms due to the backlash. That would put us right on the above pace.
But this is all really speculative and I don’t have any particular insight or educational focus on Nazi Germany. I just grew up in the wake of it, my grandfather having fought in the pacific theater.
There are certainly better prognosticators than me to listen to, but at the end of the day it’s all guesswork.
our system has created enough mass desperation for force people to chose military service rather than living a future of destitution and that guarantees that we will never have another draft.
There is currently a recruiting crisis in 3/4 of the branches. A draft will be absolutely necessary to go to war.
oic, you’re thinking that ww3 will need to happen for the united states to take over, but the united states is already in charge and the only ww3 we might have is w china.
Did you account for how much faster everything is happening? He’s only been in office for nearly three months.
He was on pace for concentration camps, within a few days. He’s moving fast but it takes time to drag a nation to war. We have time to oppose him. We have time for him to choke on a hamberder. With each passing day things get worse, but at what point will we collectively go further than protest? Things have to get really bad before that reaches critical mass.
What a fucking mess we’ve created. You know who I always wonder about? Whatever happened to the Germans who voted for Hitler? At what point did they regret it? When he turned into a madman? Or not until the Soviet and western tanks rolled into town?
Because until Trump voters start realizing what they’ve unleashed and start trying to take it back, nothing will stop him. So what’s the German blueprint for that? I don’t know.
Robert Evans had an episode of Behind the Bastards about the little Nazis. The middle class shopkeepers and middle managers that weren’t top level but were in the party.
Most of them never admitted it was a mistake to support Hitler.
To know all of that and to think, “that’s fine.”
It’s a kind of mundane evil I can’t comprehend.
The idea that this country will burn to ash and so many people will tell themselves at least a black woman wasn’t President. At least those filthy immigrants were sent to Salvadoran death camps. Too bad about my children, my business, my home, but we did the right thing. How can you look at all that and not at least think, maybe it wasn’t worth it? Maybe we’d all have been better off another way?
Fuck.
You know who I always wonder about? Whatever happened to the Germans who voted for Hitler? At what point did they regret it? When he turned into a madman? Or not until the Soviet and western tanks rolled into town?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/They_Thought_They_Were_Free
The author determined that his interviewees had fond memories of the Nazi period and did not see Adolf Hitler as evil, and they perceived themselves as having a high degree of personal freedom during Nazi rule, with the exception of the teacher. Additionally, barring said teacher, the subjects still disliked Jewish people.
That’s unbelievably disappointing.
Nazis always gonna nazi. It should be regarded as a mental illness.
People who are ill deserve compassion. Nazis deserve a mass grave.
You want to talk about concentration camps? We’re already expanding our own Black Site.
America has the highest incarceration rate in the world. The average maximum security prison holds 800-1200 prisoners. The largest, Angola, LA, holds over 8000.
Our most famous black site, Guantanamo Bay, located in CUBA (WTF?), currently holds about 120, but that’s about to change. HitlerPig has already signed an executive order to build a 30,000 bed detention facility at Guantanamo Bay, and a $249 billion contract has been awarded. This will be in a remote corner of an island controlled by a hostile enemy, far out of the prying view of the courts, or the media. Anything could happen there, and nobody at home would ever known about it.
So they are now building a facility there, that will hold 30,000 prisoners. That’s nearly 4 times our largest prison, which is already about 8 times larger than average. Clearly, they are intending to incarcerate far many people that they already do. I wonder who those people will be?
Perhaps the most worrisome piece of news is this: It is expected to be finished in 2030. Why would HitlerPig commit to such a facility if he wasnt going to be able to use it? Perhaps he expects to still be in power in 2030.
It’s not like Democrats couldn’t find a use for a 30,000 bed detention facility. Anyway, of course Trump is going for a third term.
What a timeline to be in that our best hope is that it’s just another way to funnel money to his cronies
Uh, weren’t y’all supposed to pull OUT of Gitmo?
No, not quite “won’t return anyone even if they’re innocent”. It’s more old-school witch hunt circular logic than that. It’s “if they’re in the prison, it’s because they’re a terrorist, and I will never let a terrorist free”.
wtf has everyone been doing the last decade to not see this coming
eating mcdonalds and watching tv
Dividing themselves on social media, arguing in echo chambers about identity politics, watching ever more violent professionally-filmed acclaimed series about intrigue, betrayals, power struggle, and post-apocalyptic dystopias. They’ve been watching an ungodly number of movies about superheroes and supervillains violently duking it out while the weak, passive, and powerless population watches helplessly…and the good guys usually win, leading the normies into a false sense of security that some higher power always watches over them and comes to their rescue.
Many have been watching 24/7 Faux Noose and OAN and allowed the televised onslaught of rhetoric to brainwash them into becoming party line repeating stations. The so-called second amendment advocates mostly seem to be in this camp (ironically, the camp that also seems to value the rise of tyranny, despite their claims of the 2A being an insurance policy).
Meanwhile, their opposition has been watching, waiting, and hoping the rule of law will hold the guilty accountable and restore that which is good for society, as they see it (i.e. rule of law being the omnipotent superhero). They feel dispassionate about most of ‘their’ political candidates, which aren’t all that rousing (minus a handful of the more passionate and competent with social media ones, which aren’t favorites of the DNC). There are many, many interest groups trapped in a competitive race to the bottom hoping to appear the most vulnerable, in-need, and important so as to receive the most attention and subsidies/grants/benefits.
Meanwhile, follow the money- corporate America wants fewer regulations and the ability to exploit labor as much as it can to maximize majority shareholder wealth.
And then there’s the foreign influence from powerful countries who would love to watch America collapse…
I don’t agree with your view of superheros. I think they work as a metaphor of any person brave enough to stand up to evil. People never imagine they are the powerless population. The films focus on the heros and people personify with them - it’s inspirational. There has also been a big stress on heros needing to team up lately. The movies did nothing wrong. I agree with everything else though.
I think superhero movies, as well all the many movies where a team of misfits overcome their difficulties to save the day when the USA faces disaster, are just American self-mythologizing. Americans like stories that show how deep down they are strong and sensible and when the chips are down they come together as a team to take care of the world, but in reality they’re not that at all. The problem is they believe their own myths.
Super heroes are an individualist power fantasy. In the real world , real power comes from groups and collective action. Super hero stories imagine a world where the power to do good resides in the individual.
I believe it’s a reaction to our powerlessness in the face of things like this.
But even to take action in a group, you have to make the individual decision to join. You have to chose for yourself, which takes individual bravery, because even if you’re part of a group, the responsibility and potential repercussions will be yours to deal with. A group always consists of individual people. I read superhero stories as stories about finding the bravery in yourself (the superpower) to go and join the good cause despite the terrible danger.
I agree with what you’re saying, philosophically. A group is just a framework we put around individuals. That’s how it works in the real world.
But the idea of being able to have an impact on my own has a special appeal for me personally. It’s not a practical thing, which is why it’s escapism.
My question was rhetorical but yeah, magats are fucking losers and the dnc is fucking impotent
Telling people not to let the Republicans get the trifecta?
That’s really all that needed to happen.
I will say, even despite me being the one constantly yelling about the incoming american fascism, I also though it’d take at least a little longer
But here we are, with most institutions and companies just rolling over. Sure, I figured it would happen, but I at least thought it’d take more than a year. Not… 3 months
It’s… I lack words, even. This is straight up nazi Germany, except we have the hindsight of history, and yet it’s still all for naught. Incredibly incredibly scary
Have you ever watched the movie Conspiracy depicting the Wannsee Conference? Things happen pretty quickly when bureaucrats are aligned and motivated. Suddenly they find a way to become organized beyond anyone’s wildest dreams.
No. No I’m not allowing “I doubt many people knew this would happen” no. Plenty of us did nothing but scream for decades. You shooed us away. You sided with them because we were inconvenient to you.
Plenty of us did nothing
You’re saying “you” to the people that were shouting it. You’re shouting into an echo chamber. Maybe go say it to them
Some of are still screaming and being unheard.
excuse me for trying to save our democracy from tankies that were trying to delegitimize it
Everything that was supposed to come true under communism has come true under capitalism.
Another idiot who voted for a genocider lmao
What democracy? Shove it into your butthole
at what point is this not just a reactionary coup - the president’s complete disregard of the Supreme Court’s ruling and the Constitution means the United States of America is over, no? I mean, whatever this government is, it’s no longer operating by the fundamental rules and laws that established this country, that define this government - this is a new, autocratic government operating by different rules.
Where and when do we meet to stop this bullshit?
Everywhere, continuously. https://www.fiftyfifty.one/ is a good start. Find your local org, meet the people, make connections.
SRA might be an option if you think future direct action might be necessary.
I was looking at states guard and wondering if blue states should be bolstering up their organized armed militias. State guard, as opposed to national guard, cannot be called upon by the federal government and are solely under the direction of the state governors.
One big downside, is many of the state guardsman are members of the national guard as well, as being in the state guard does not preclude you from the national military. There seems to be a lot of training from the national guard to the state guard.
Join your local indivisible group.
on April 19th there will be protests nationwide in every city.
I plan to be at the one where I live, with as many people as I can get to come with me. attending is the bare minimum i can do, but until we collectively get up enough courage for large scale civil disobedience, simple protests are a starting point to get you connected with local allies and movements.
January 6th?
On voting day months ago.
He *IS" a convicted, homegrown, American criminal himself! Literally.
Weren’t the dems so sure he was going to jail all this time? What happened?
I knew for sure he wouldn’t, but it was fun seeing it happen anyway.
They deserve it.Sure, the dems deserve it just like a woman deserves what she gets for wearing that revealing dress in that bar, right? Because that’s what you are doing. Blaming the victims.
Instead of blaming the Republican party and people who didn’t vote, you make fun of the only people who tried to stop them. Which tells us all exactly the type of person you are.
Someone who would rather make fun of “THE DEMS” instead of Trump and the Republican party. You’re the problem, not “the dems”.
O look, the sensitive mods removed my comment.
And your fallacy is going to backfire.
Since you’re the actual victim blamer. You are pissed at a woman for not chosing to go home with your fiend, the guy who raped her before bcs this other guy is going to rape her even harder.
Imagine respecting her choice of not going to go with either of the scumbags.
Cry all you want, I have zero sympathy for the awful fascist-light party and their voters.
Imagine how ridiculously bad you have to be to not be an alternative to fascists.
And I’m European, certainly not the problem.
You OTOH and your tone-deaf party have enabled this.
I can only laugh at you all getting the consequences of your own actions, and the frustrated lashing out at leftists with a consciense who didn’t bend to voting for slightly lesser evil, arrogant and despicable corporate puppets.
Purely pragmatically it’s great for the world, we can finally cut ties and get rid of you.
Have fun over there.
Buy a gun. Train.
Get connected with others. Make sure they get armed. Train with them.
I keep seeing this advice but honestly I’d rather spend years in a El Salavadorean prison wrongly convicted with the hope of being freed than die immediately in a hail of bullets, or be rightfully imprisoned for life for killing a cop.
What if I told you it won’t be very many years, and it’ll also be the rest of your life?
You’d change your mind on this while you go through torture
I mean, if by “years” you mean less than a year, killed, and buried in a mass grave in El Salvador than sure.
This is in comparison to getting in a firefight with the police? I’m sorry, but yes, I’d rather take my chances. Shooting at the police is, even if the odds are close, more likely to get you killed.
You don’t come out alive from those prisons and it’s gonna hurt more than bullets
Death is far from the worst thing that can happen to someone. We all must walk with the reaper some day. I would much rather die on my feet than live on my knees. CECOT is not living, it is Hell. I would infanetly prefer to go to Valhalla than CECOT.
The official stance is that nobody will ever get out of that prison alive. Literally. It’s one very specific prison, and it’s reduced El Salvador’s violent crime rate to damn near zero because of how fucked up that prison is, and how little due process you’ll receive if you even just get caught having gang tattoos. They don’t need to connect you to any specific crime.
You’ll share the cell with like 40 other dudes, and you all share one communal water barrel and one communal shit pit. The food is specifically designed to not be nutritious enough to sustain any muscle mass. You’ll wish for death in there, but you can’t even commit suicide by another inmate. Even suicide by guard is hard to pull off.
I’d honestly take the bullet over CECOT.
You can imagine being freed from a concentration camp but can’t imagine successful community defense.
Cops don’t want to die in a hail of bullets either. There are more of us than them.
It’s purely a numbers thing. You shoot at a cop and you die. You go in a concentration camp and you might die. Even if it’s very likely, just personally speaking, I’d take that over certain death.
The important part is to not be the only person with the gun around. Personal defence won’t do much but community defense might.
But seriously. Nobody is coming back from El Salvador. If ICE comes for you you might as well take one with you.
I really don’t think we’re clearly thinking this through. I know my next door neighbor, but if the guy three doors down has a circle of cops outside a) I might not even know depending on the amount of noise, b) I’m not going to go shooting cops in the back if I just see them.
And when does this start? Have you shot a cop yet? Are you planning shooting cops today? Tomorrow? Next month? In 6 months?
I dont buy it.
I don’t think anyone is coming out of El Salvador. And I think if I did there is an excellent chance if I did survive it, I will wish I had been killed instead. I don’t think they have women’s prisons down there and if they did I would 100% be sent to the men’s. I used to learn about the Holocaust and wonder “why didn’t the Jews fight back?” And the truth is that some of them did, but most did not they didn’t have access to guns and they just hoped they would get through it.
When school kids are learning about the American Holocaust I don’t want to be one of the victims that kids wonder “why didn’t the trans Americans fight back?”
ICE needs to be resisted at every level. By Congress, by the states, by cities, and by individuals. I only have discretion over myself. I don’t want to shoot anybody, but I don’t want to die in a mass grave in Cuba or El Salvador either.
Will it work? Probably not. Am I talking tough on the internet? I hope I never find out the answer to that. But I know that if Americans decide to stop ICE as a group we could, even if Congress and the courts and so on are compromised.
The concept that “if jews had guns” the holocaust wouldn’t have happened was deliberate inflammatory rhetoric and propaganda from the NRA and US right wing talk radio (Rush Limbaugh et al) and is not based in fact or truth, and only arose in the 1990s as a last ditch attempt to prevent (American) gun control laws.
Intellectually and philosophically the problem with the argument is that you are imagining an entirely fictional past (Jews having guns in the Weimar Republic) and claiming that the imagined fantasy past proves that the real history and present would have successfully been altered. It would be as logical to claim that if Jews had dynamite, or chainsaws, or wore plate armor, or carried a magical talisman, or memorized a specific poem they could have prevented the holocaust. All of which, including guns, is extremely improbable at best.
And so is the case here. I asked another commenter when they expected to start killing cops, and how many they expect to kill. No reply. I’m not telling you or recommending you do it, I just find it interesting that everyone telling me to kill cops on sight isn’t doing it themselves.
You pivot to “we need to stop ICE” but I don’t want to lose the focus of this discussion which was suggesting that I open fire on police officers on sight as a solution to this political problem.
Some things are worse than death and can be sustained without any form of honesty or due process right here in the United States
It’s OK to not want to harm another person. Another thing that may be more important is to prepare yourself to handle some intense questioning along with threats of winding up in a place like that (if you think your chances are better in there). I’m not judging you but don’t be a rat
Ya dude. It’s easy to say. Military has been training everyday for quite a long time with fully automatics
Asymmetrical urban warfare is death for all. The last few decades have shown us this.