cross-posted from: https://sh.itjust.works/post/43241710
And everyone thought registries were only for sex offenders. If it works to punish them then why not on those who don’t want to work?
Only very tangentially related to this
I work in 911 dispatch. Part of our hiring process is after the initial interview and aptitude test, they have applicants come in to do a job shadow with us for an hour or two. Basically just sit with us while we’re answering and dispatching calls, see what the work we do is actually like, gives them a chance ask us questions, and we can kind of feel them out to see if they’d be a good fit.
And a shocking amount of people make it to that stage and then don’t show up for their job shadow.
I’m admittedly biased, since I work here, but I feel like even if I didn’t actually have any interest in the job, that would be an interesting peek behind the curtain that I’d still want to see regardless.
Your basically asking people to work an hour or two for free. Fuck that.
You must be 15 and never had a job if you don’t understand that shadowing is not working for free.
No more than for any other sort of job interview. They’re not answering calls, they’re sitting there listening.
And honestly I thought it was a great experience when I got hired, it gave me a real inside look to what the workplace culture was before I started here, and a chance to talk to and ask questions to people who are actually doing the job I was applying for instead of some HR/supervisor/deputy director type.
And since we obviously work 24/7/365 we can pretty much make any time work for these applicants, so they don’t need to take off from work or anything to come in and do it. We get a lot of them on nights and weekends.
It’s also pretty necessary to make sure people can handle it. It can get really intense at times, and seeing an incident unfold in real time is a very different experience than listening to a recording of a call after the fact. Class space to train new dispatchers is limited, and almost every dispatch center is constantly short-staffed, so we really need to make our hires count, and we lose plenty enough throughout the training process as it is, we don’t want to spend a couple months training someone only to get them out on the floor to realize that they can’t emotionally handle listening to, let alone actually handling 911 calls.
Did you miss the part where they were not answering any calls or doing any hands on work? The shadow is for the applicant to observe and see if they still want the job.
911 dispatch is not flipping burgers, peoples lives are at stake. They need to be on their toes and not have cold feet if they realize they can’t handle the stress or are in way over their heads.
You’re still asking them to be present in a job environment. I get why you do that, but i also see why it would nark people. It’s taking unpaid time for preparation for a job they may not even get.
If they just called it an interview would you still expect to get paid? 1 to 2 hours is pretty much the min for interviews in my field. But maybe that is very long in yours?
Do you expect people to get paid for showing up to a job interview? Because that’s, in essence, what it is- a second round of interviews, albeit a pretty informal one.
And since we’re obviously a 24/7 operation, there’s a lot of flexibility on when we can schedule it, not like most interviews where you probably have to take time off of work for it, we do a lot of them on weekends and evenings.
It’s also a really good chance to see what the workplace culture and actual day-to-day reality of the job is like and to talk to people who are actually doing the job instead of just taking some suit from HR’s word for it.
If it’s two hours long, yes! I expect to get paid for that time. Absolutely.
I have never shadowed at a new job and had it be unpaid.
new job
For a new job, sure, you should be getting paid. This is part of the hiring process, you don’t have the job yet.
I’ve known a lot of people who’ve gotten jobs that have had a half dozen or so rounds of interviews, how many hours does that add up to? Every other interview I’ve ever done was at least 30-45 minutes, so after 3 rounds or so of interviews at another job you’ve pretty much broken even on that.
And with other jobs that’s often spread over multiple days or weeks that you’d probably need to take time off from your current job for. I’d gladly take this hour or two on a night or weekend over that.
Do you expect people to get paid for showing up to a job interview?
I don’t expect it, but it is something that good employers do. When you are taking people’s time for a business purpose (in this case, having them answer questions to inform them about whether they want to hire them), the business should pay. It’s an initial sign of respect to someone you may soon be asking to trust that you as a business are a good place to invest their working life and aren’t going to try to steal your time and labor.
I don’t know what sort of fantasy land you live in, but I’ve never heard of anywhere paying someone for a job interview.
Oh, well if you haven’t heard of it, it must not exist. I’m apologize for knowing something you didn’t and offending you by saying it’s good.
This isn’t an interview.
This is live running in a work environment.
It is sitting there listening to and watching someone do the job.
They’re not answering calls, they’re not entering anything into the computer, they’re not doing paperwork, the most they’re going to be asked to do is “hey can you move your chair a bit, I need to get into that drawer”
In fact, if they tried to do any of those things they’d be kicked right the fuck out, that would be a whole mess of liability issues since they don’t have any of the necessary training or certifications.
They’re observing to see what the job entails. They’re (hopefully) asking questions to see if it’s a good fit for them, and we’re seeing how they react to what they’re hearing and what their attitude is like to see if they’re going to be a good fit.
When I have a job shadow with me, nothing changes about how I do my job except I scoot my chair a little further to the left to make room for them, and between calls I’m chatting mostly with them instead of my coworkers or reading, and once they’re done I have a short questionnaire to fill out about whether I think they’re a good candidate.
They sit there quietly watching and listening to me handle calls, and in between we just chit chat. They usually ask some questions about the calls they heard me take or the job in general (they all seem to ask what the craziest call I ever took was) I usually ask a few of my own to get a feel for them. I tell them stories about the job, crack some jokes, I point out a couple things that I think are neat (like the document we have with information about what we’re supposed to do if we get a call about a loose emu- it happens more often than you’d think)
Then after they leave I have a short questionnaire to fill out about if I think they’re a good candidate or not.
They sit with a call-taker for about 30-45 minutes listening to 911 calls coming in, then go sit with a dispatcher for about the same amount of time to listen to calls being given out over the radio the the field units, then there’s a short, pretty informal interview with the on-duty supervisors and/or someone from our training department.
They’re not getting trained, they’re not expected to retain any of the information or understand everything, and they’re certainly not expected to be able to do the job after sitting with me. It’s pretty much all about vibes. Do they like the vibe of the workplace, and do we like their vibe as a potential coworker.
Fuck me dead i’m literally just saying i can see why some people would object to the scenario, i don’t need your railing manifesto misdirected at me.
Still work, and no one should do it for free. I worked at a lot call centers and even had an ex who did 911 calls. You don’t work for free. To easy to exploit. Also heard they don’t pay worth a shit compared to the trauma you experience working there. Probably why they don’t show up. Its pays shit and even just watching is work. And don’t try make it out as if it’s easier then other type of work.
possible they found another job, which happens all the time, and some Do cherry pick, maybe i choose this job, but i will just wait for the other jobs interview or something else comes up. or they chose and apply to this job as a backup until one comes up with a better offer.
I’m sure that’s probably the case, but that’s kind of my point.
Even if I landed another, better, job between my initial interview and my job shadow, I probably would have still shown up for the shadow because when else are you going to get a chance to peek behind the curtain like that?
I may not have pursued it any further from that, but to me being able to just show up and listen to 911 calls being handled for a bit would be too cool of an opportunity to pass up. I’m pretty sure I would have jumped at the opportunity to do that even if I wasn’t trying to get hired.
But again, I’m biased, I work here and like my job so of course I think it’s kind of neat.
You should test calling it an interview and not giving details. See if it changes the ghosting percent. My guess is that for most people, a job at 911 is a last resort. Many have heard how tough it is emotionally. So they probably got another offer by then and just took it.
A lot of things vary from one agency to another, but where I work I don’t think most people would consider this a last resort job. Most of us are here either because this is what we want to do or because it’s a good career builder towards other public safety/law enforcement type jobs.
For my part, if I have to work, I think this is about as good as it gets for me. I like the hours, the pay isn’t amazing but it’s livable, benefits are solid, and it’s interesting and satisfying work.
It’s also not the quickest hiring process since they usually wait until they have a few people to run a training class, it’s been a few years now but I believe I did my aptitude test and interview in mid August (same day because they were doing a hiring event, sometimes they have to get scheduled separately) did my job shadow a week or two later with another short interview, got my conditional offer around mid September, had to do a drug, hearing, and vision test and a psych eval, and class started in about mid-late October, so about 2 months start to finish.
I have a friend who tested at the same time as me and got picked up for the next class they ran, so it was a couple extra months for him.
And some other agencies have extra steps in the process. More rounds of interviews, really in-depth background checks with interviews with the sheriff and a polygraph test and such (thankfully the agency I work for isn’t like that since polygraphs are bullshit)
No not ideal for someone who really needs a job ASAP.
I have friend who works for 911. And I agree that the people who do the job don’t consider it a last resort. But of the people who “apply” for the job, I suspect many do simply because of the reputation for impacting a person’s mental health. But the rest of what you said gives me another potential cause. Drug testing. It possible some didn’t read the application in full or misunderstood some of the ongoing testing that happens as part of the job. The first interview probably enlightened some of them on the subject. That may cause them second thoughts after scheduling the shadow. I would expect it to be even more the case if the scheduling of the shadow happens the same day as the first round of interviews. But many people will see scheduling the shadow as nothing to lose, and delay deciding if they really want to go foreward until the last minute.
Sure. But only if there’s also a registry of all employment denials that includes the reason for denial and whether they bothered to even tell the applicant.
Small government Republicans, eh?
Will that include the legislators that sleep or don’t show up to work/votes?
Its a red state so they don’t have a registry of guns.
Use this information however you will 😏
And what about the employers that ghost applicants?
- puts a checkmark beside your name because you missed the interview
no you see they’re not part of “the poors”.
As a state run List / database, this is pretty much inherently evil
As an industry group, it sounds like a great idea IMO. As a hiring manager with limited hours in the day, the percentage of recent college grads who either ghost the interview or – 100x worse – literally ghost the job and never show or take another offer after accepting mine … I mostly just want to blacklist the asshat so they don’t continue fucking over other honest hard working people
What’s it like to watch Fox News these days?
Looking for a job is itself like having a full-time job. If someone determines that what you’re offering isn’t what they’re looking for, it’s understandable that they don’t want to waste any more of their time.
“Not interested, thank you”
Vs
(Ghost … tumbleweed… how long you gonna wait?)
Sure, as long as we can also include companies and hiring managers that ghost applicants and rescind offers.
This isn’t an issue of ghosting though. It’s about reneging on an agreement. You’re telling someone you’ll meet them at a particular time and then not showing up. The equivalent on the hiring side would be if you told an applicant that you’ll let them know what the decision is by a certain date and then not doing it. If you made no such promise, then that’s a different story. Rescinding an offer is equally problematic, but I’m pretty sure you can take legal action against them for something like that. Promissory estoppel I think?
How is recinding an offer not reneging on an agreement?
It is? And they’re not allowed to do that, right? I’m not that familiar with law, but that’s what I see every time people talk about their job offers getting rescinded.
Ah, maybe I misunderstood you. You said that it is not an issue of ghosting but of reneging on an agreement, while the parent comment had a clear example of reneging on an agreement. Also, as far as I know rescinded job offers are quite difficult to persue legally as contracts usually have some trial period where any side can cease the contract for any reason (or are completely at will). But I have never persued such action so I am not sure what the precedent is.
I feel your pain. I used to be in the same situation. It’s incredible how many people no-call/no-show after scheduling an interview.
Maybe make them a better offer…People dont no-show to a job that has good benefits, salary, etc.
They no-show when they realize the job isnt worth it. That’s on you and your dumbass company for trying to lowball everyone you hire.
One typically “makes an offer” after an interview has actually taken place.
Do you tell them salary and benefits after the interview? Bcz thats backwards… I want to know up front what im trading my services for. If you cant tell me that before the interview, there’s no reason to waste my time or yours.
You and this dude seem to think that youre doing some kind of service just by giving people jobs. Well, you’re not.
I’m curious when you and I because such horrible people. Acting like we deserve basic courtesies auch as being told if someone is no longer interested, so we can get the job filled
I hate to break it to you, but I think we’re the man.
Expecting basic curtesies and being frustrated and irritated when someone did not do a tiny bit of effort to save you a lot of time and money is fine.
Advocating for an industrialized system to ruin peoples lives because of it is the problem.
at will employment.
want assurances? start by giving them
Ah yes, “nobody wants to work anymore, and I know that because these entitled college grads decided to work a different job instead of the shitty one I offered them.”
If people are going through the effort to take an interview (usually multiple rounds) and go all the way through the process until an offer is made and then still don’t accept the job, then that is 50% on the hiring manager not being upfront about working conditions, pay, and other benefits throughout the process and 50% on the company for not offering adequate pay and benefits that match the work. This is 0% on the person who had their time wasted by the interview process. They were obviously worth more than what they were offered as evidenced by receiving a better offer somewhere else.
I don’t think that people need to go to a job interview if they don’t intend to take a job — that’s wasting their time and that of the interviewers.
But that’s not what the parent comment is talking about. He’s talking about no-shows. Someone schedules an interview and then just never shows up.
I think that it’s pretty unreasonable to just no-show a job interview if you don’t want the job. Call and cancel.
People who are interviewing are going to organize their day around interviewing you. It dicks with them to leave that block allocated.
When he’s taking about ghosting the job, he’s not saying that people should be obligated to not take another, preferable offer. He’s saying that they never tell him that they’re doing so after telling him that they’re accepting his offer. Call and at least tell them that you’re pulling out.
So here is the problem I think.
In a sane world, you would put up a job ad, 5 people with relevant skills apply, you interview them and select one. If I’m a candidate, I’d have to send in 5 applications to 5 companies, and do an interview with each to find a job.
But then recruiters today won’t even start interviewing with 5 candidates applying, they wait until at least like 100, of which they will call in like 20. So the company needs to do 20 interviews, I as an applicant have to do 20 interviews, and write 100 applications on average.
But since most places won’t call me in, even if I’m qualified, since they will wait until an arbitrary number of applications and then won’t call in everyone qualified, I need to send in as many applications as I can since I need to pay the bills next month, so all companies will receive hundreds of not-really-qualified job applications as well.
Then again, companies want to simplify the problem from their side, so they automate resume checks. This errs on the side of false negatives, since there is barely any cost to filtering out a good candidate versus not filtering out a bad one. Then, when recruiters realise they don’t have to check applications by hand anymore, they increase the arbitrary “no interviews under 100 applications” number to 1000 or 2000 or whatever, the more the better, right?
And then add AI checks, AI applications, malicious companies advertising with no actual job just to “check the market”, staffing companies making fake applications to flood the market and make it impossible for companies to hire from outside them, and other shit.
You end up with people submitting dozens if not hundreds of applications per day, for months, and they will of course not be able to even keep track of each application and each interview. Imagine you’ve been ghosted 2000 times over 6 months. Would you make sure you don’t do the same to some recruiter that will statistically most likely ghost you anyway? Or fuck off, clear your calendar and be happy that you’re done with this shit?
Calendars? It’s no different from scheduling anything else. Meetings, social events, doctors appointments, etc, everything goes in a calendar. Whether there’s 5 items or 5000, it works the same way.
Yeah, but then do you send off 5000 emails? What if the only contact is through a per-company Workday account, Whatsapp, Linkedin, whatever?
And again, you’ve just been ghosted by hundreds of people, so that set the expectations the other way.
In what world will you have 5000 job interviews scheduled? Most people only manage to get up to five at a time if they’re lucky.
I am getting downvoted to hell and shouldn’t give these people the pleasure of knowing this but…
I have multiple times missed time with my wife and children because I wanted to get an important job filled by someone I was excited to hire. Who ghosted me.
And I am saying, people who casually waste other’s time and goodwill, should have a reputation that catches up with them, sooner rather than later, for the good of all.
What the fuck is wrong with people that I am the bad guy here, seriously
Missing time with your family for work is an awful precedent to set. A lot of people don’t give a shit about their work and don’t care to let it take away from their life.
If I am interviewing, I’m going in with the mindset that I am selling my body/mind to the highest bidder for 8 hours a day, every day, for the foreseeable future. Any time outside of that, I am not thinking about the employer at all. If you and your company aren’t the highest bidder, you aren’t worth my time.
You sound transactional. Maybe you’ll be President
Work is transactional. I show up, they pay me. What else would it be? This is not how I view my life outside of work, my relationships, or my friendships. But work is 100% a transaction.
I have multiple times missed time with my wife and children because I wanted to get an important job filled by someone I was excited to hire. Who ghosted me.
You shouldn’t neglect your children for your job, even if it doesn’t go wrong and you are rewarded (lol) for your efforts.
Keep them on normal working ours and it shouldn’t be an issue. They are not wasting your time, you are still getting paid unless you on some moronic payment scheme. You can argue they are wasting the company’s money but that’s just the cost of doing business.
But seriously if you actually have children, you should put them first. Anything else will make you a horrible person in a lot of people’s eyes. Worst case, scenario it will make them resent you.
Sure, wasting peoples time is awful and should be avoided (from both sides). The thing is, coming in saying that any government list/database is inherently evil, so let’s have private companies do it instead is a take that is bound to invite some very heated arguments.
An industry list is a system that (I believe) is ripe for abuse.
Some problems I can think of from the top of my head
- Listing applicants that rejected offers to prevent them from getting better offers elsewhere
- Applicant time wasted if they are blacklisted (an industry list has no incentive to publish said list. Job seekers would just keep sending out applications never knowing why they do not get through the automated application filtering step)
- Listing your own employees to prevent them from switching to a better company
- Plain old spite if you left a previous employer on bad terms
- I am sure companies can come up with some creative other uses of list mechanics
Also, an industry blacklisting an individual does not have an even effect as a reciprocal list where companies with unfair hiring practices (such as ghost jobs that never get filled or ghosting applicants without explanation) get listed. If the effect would be the same (i.e. not being able to work in said field), then the sanction on a company would effectively be dissolution (difficult to run a company if you are not able to do any work in the field that your company specializes in).
I feel for you missing out on time with your family. I have myself also worked overtime because I was enthousiastic about a specific project or task, but part of choosing to work that overtime is accepting the risk that the time will not be successful or productive.
If this has happend multiple times, I would say, be less flexible in your planning, and don’t work overtime but spend time with your loved ones. (If you live in a jurisdiction where overtime is not defacto mandatory)
Say there is a pile of company time wasted by applicants and a pile of applicant time wasted by companies, then I think we both know which pile is bigger.
Doesn’t all this happen with a government list too? The problem is making a demerit list with parties that could be interested in abusing it. Is a government list going to be any more likely to verify that the reports are accurate?
I guess theoretically a government list is more beholden to the general public, but in reality that’s rarely how things actually play out. The whole reason this exists at all is because business has influence with politicians that regular voters don’t. It certainly isn’t a priority of the general voting population.
I am not saying that a government list like the one proposed in Ohio is good. I think it is terrible. But a list managed by an industry group where the keepers of the list are direct stakeholders of the list, while not beholdend to Freedom of Information requests, as suggested by the parent comment, is even worse.
Oh poor you, it must be so hard being a lie e of shit…
Uppity slave register, United States of America, 2025.
first of all, unemployment benefits should not be tied to you showing up to a job interview because usually it follows that if offered the job you must accept if you can. so, you basically have no agency and have to take whatever shit job offered. if i get a red flag or otherwise don’t to commit to an interview i do not owe the company or its workers my notice. i will make the effort if i choose to but me being a dick shouldn’t make me lose my benefits.
anyway, fuck this registry.
So whats the objective here, to make it harder for lazy people to get jobs? Like Whats the end game with that?
It’s so they can cut your unemployment benefits.
BAM. There it is. This is exactly why they are doing it
Because conservatives would rather spend more money than spend less to ensure that the poors struggle as much as humanly possible in hopes that they “finally get the picture” and just die.
I mean how much is this registry going to cost to maintain and monitor? how much is it going to cost to simply set up? I guarantee you it’ll be more than whatever it currently costs the state of Ohio in unemployment benefits, wellfare, whatever. As long as it’s cruel, encourages poor people to either kill themselves or die or leave the state then mission accomplished I guess.
Jesus. Fuck Ohio. What about a registry of companies found guilty of wage theft?
or companies that are doing ghost listings, and the ones that are pretending to list but actually had someone else they internally hired/nepotism and only put the list as a way to say we tried.
Agreed but please don’t fuck Ohio; we have more than just those jerks to offer
Let me guess it’s called right-to-be-interviewed
Can we get a registry of people who have wealth in excess of a million dollars?
Literally anyone who contributed to a retirement account for a while?
??? What echochamber do you live in?
I live in being slightly older?
Or lives in a high cost of living area. My parents own a house that looks like garbage and has primarily unfinished walls (they’re working on that) but is valued in excess of $1M because of the land.
Don’t be silly, why would they want a list of themselves?
To be fair if you own a 800 square foot condo that you bought 25-30 years ago for less than 100k in a city you most likely have a million dollars of wealth…
Registry for anyone worth in excess of 10 million***
A step towards a social credit system.
Next on job interview questions list: Do you have any physical impediment to pregnancy?
Well I have balls. Gonna be pretty hard to get pregnant
I have seen the depths of nHentai, someone is definitely into that.
I don’t doubt that. Still gonna be pretty hard to do
